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This is also including if we didn't defend any of our other zones, and everyone stayed in range for 12 hours straight doing nothing but qonqr.

There's the difference. Around here people will put in days focusing on nothing but one zone while maintaining a good overheat the entire time. We'll check other zones to make sure there's no major attack going on there but they're all set up to last multiple days unless 5+ people are attacking. About the 1000 vs 730, looks like the enemy zone I used to pull the numbers off of didn't have full support bots or something, they tend to spread them out among multiple people so it can be hard to tell. The point still stands though, you would be killing more than kittens can reinforce were you devoting the same amount of attention to the zone as he does.

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Why are you posting Maec's screen shot?

I'm Maecenus's multiscope :)

I mean... Who is this Maecenus you speak of?

Are you trying to generate even more multi-scoper request for me to deal with?

Would I ever do anything like that silver :lol:

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There's the difference. Around here people will put in days focusing on nothing but one zone while maintaining a good overheat the entire time. We'll check other zones to make sure there's no major attack going on there but they're all set up to last multiple days unless 5+ people are attacking. About the 1000 vs 730, looks like the enemy zone I used to pull the numbers off of didn't have full support bots or something, they tend to spread them out among multiple people so it can be hard to tell. The point still stands though, you would be killing more than kittens can reinforce were you devoting the same amount of attention to the zone as he does.

I wish we had that ability... Down here we've got enough other active enemies that we need to keep tabs all over but you may have just encouraged me to take a trip back home with some friends just to take down a swarm player, maybe you should have spent your time trying to convince me it couldn't be done ;)

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We have other enemies too, that's why we hit people so hard. You have to hit hard enough to tie up the entire team you're attacking and drop them fast enough that the third team doesn't notice the attention's elsewhere. Then we also have zones that can hold a while against anything but a full team assault and we keep an eye out even when we're attacking or defending elsewhere to make sure we don't give away an easy capture. Sometimes it's worth letting 2-3 people bang away at a zone for a day without being able to take it while you and your teammates take out an enemy stronghold.

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We have other enemies too, that's why we hit people so hard. You have to hit hard enough to tie up the entire team you're attacking and drop them fast enough that the third team doesn't notice the attention's elsewhere. Then we also have zones that can hold a while against anything but a full team assault and we keep an eye out even when we're attacking or defending elsewhere to make sure we don't give away an easy capture. Sometimes it's worth letting 2-3 people bang away at a zone for a day without being able to take it while you and your teammates take out an enemy stronghold.

Says Mr. "We have 6+ million bots in St. Paul."

I would imagine it would surprising to some people (not everyone) to see how high some of these zones up here in the inner loop have been stacked to.

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I know I sent messages to 61 people (almost all had bots deployed in Minneapolis or St. Paul, I know I missed people in the suburbs) when trying to organize the Swarm around here but I'm not sure how many are actually active, The most I've seen any team put on the field in a single battle was the Legion with 37.

And St. Paul only has 4.8M bots, it's Minneapolis that has 6.5M. :D

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"The balance we try to strike in QONQR is that a players spending money should be able to overcome a smallish group of players 3-10 players, but would be unable to spend (within reason) to overcome many more than that."

That's incredibly unbalancing and the very reason pay to win is so frustrating.

Take a nice even battle between 3-4 people on each side, have one person use a little P2W and suddenly they've dominated the other team with a relative strength between 6-14 vs that 3-4. They set up a strong defense and then can stop paying, and the other team has an uphill battle vs. the strong defense.

My personal situation was 1v1, and it was fun, and then a college kid came back to town, spent a lot of money on arrival and wiped out the entire area in 2 weeks. Between that and the continuous bugs with inaccurate bot counts, bots going to the wrong zone suddenly, and now the map loading up with the wrong zone from the bases list, I'm pretty much done.

If you love your free players, let them be genuinely competitive and devise a way to convert them to paying occasionally. Pay to win giving a 300%-1000% boost is not even close to balanced. It should be in the realm of 15-30% if you can't find any other way to monetize the game.

Good luck with the game, it was an interesting concept that kept me intrigued for several months, but the bugs and this concept of balance is too frustrating for my free time.

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After some time since I was in here, I do agree with many of the players who feel there is a imbalance in the cube system.

1. The cube packages. the high end 500 cube pack is great, by the time you get down to the 10 cube pack the offset in value to the dollar is massive. Cube to cube comparison shows that a 10, 25, & 50 packs cubes are about 100% more expensive than the 500 packs cubes.

2. Extended periods of low exchange rates hinder any paying player who cant buy in bulk.

3. The 1 to 10 ratio. while this dosn't sound to horrible at first glance, but when you go up in scale to 5 or 10 paying players it becomes disturbing. Is it really ok for them to be able to fend off 50 to 100 players? In the north east we are running fairly large scale ops, and while I agree that paying players should get there moneys worth. there is a massive amount of players who spend just to buy missiles to attack in these ops.

Under optimal exchange rates, anyone not buying the 500 cube pack is spending roughly $1.00 per 16 missiles (or 2.5 tanks worth of attacks) If we go though 100 missiles in a op that op just cost $10 times 30 out of state players. $300 should not be able to lose to 3 players who bought in bulk spending the equivalent of $150 worth of cubes to defend the target. right now buying the 500 cube pack grants the player an effect that is borderline god mode.

4. Lack of equivalent attacks for spending players. The free to play attacks and defense are very well balanced. You can go blow for blow using the free attacks and defense for days on end fighting over a zone. But the only effective attack for paying players is the nano missile, and it falls far to short when pitted against paid defense.

If any kind of change is made to any of the above issues the game will balance out much better. I would suggest increasing the effect of nano missiles against the paid defense, or doubling the amount of cubes for all the packages below the 500 pack.

I know that playing with the money side of things can be scary and risky, but you stand to make much more money long term by holding onto as many players as possible, not just the ones who buy in bulk.

Its stupid, I know, but last month alone, I must have used about $100 on the game, but in small packages. For that money I got roughly 250 cubes. Yes buying the $100 cube pack would be the smart option, but its just not possible for me and many many others to spend $100 in one large chunk on a whim. Buying $10 $20 or $40 every week or two is far more manageable.

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uhh Tio i disagree completely about buffing nano missles mate. i get that defensively a paying player can sit there and spam one seeker per few seconds using refreshers and waste every single missle you guys send. example, i have a million bot base and my mate tosses in seeker after seeker if my base is under attack making your missles basically useless.

but that is only for active defense. nano missiles already do about as much damage as a plasma shot and shockwave combined... and you wanna give them a buff?

va is full of players on legion and faceless that essentially only use cubes for mass missile strikes paired with refreshers and have devastated many other players to the point of quitting... i don't think you need to make that easier for them, because any buff would just hurt free players more...

i dunno, just my 2 cents.

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adding other ordinance to spice things up would be awesome though.

but i see what your saying about paying defense vs paying attack, and i'm not sure how to balance it, just letting you know i've seen paying players bulldoze free players to rack up kills and caps with minimal effort instead of fighting other paying players.

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the missile thing was just a suggestion. though to me the point of the missile is the damage and not the bots it leaves behind. yes they can help a little in combat as fodder, but not much. my thoughts on the missiles is the damage ratio when pitted against a well built tower. with +100k absorbers and full lat+galvs. but that doesn't have to be the solution. The heart of the issue from my point of view is the offset in power the bulk cube purchase creates even over other paying players.

Really I think considering $100 of small cubes gets yo about 250 cubes. the $100 bulk should get you at max 300 cubes. its still a value. but almost any change I think would help the system in this regards.

You are correct that there will always be a power imbalance when it comes to paying and free. My thought i taht if yuo balance out the bulk issue it will reduce the over alll strain on the free players.

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i'm curious about your subscription model, maybe including a monthly cube alloment to let players get a feel for cube usage and hoping they enjoy it enough to buy more, along with other perks or unique visuals/bots to set yourself apart and create a bit of envy so that people try to 1 up each other.

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i'm curious about your subscription model, maybe including a monthly cube alloment to let players get a feel for cube usage and hoping they enjoy it enough to buy more, along with other perks or unique visuals/bots to set yourself apart and create a bit of envy so that people try to 1 up each other.

I agree. most of those visual perks would be awesome. Ive backed off pushing for the subscription and other mods for now. Qonqr staffs has explained that they will be making changes to the system, So I'm hoping some of the suggestions from the threads are reviewed. not just mine,, there were many excellent ideas posted in many of the forum threads.

my only real comment on qubes and the exchange, is the extreme benefit to buying in bulk. I agree that there should be some benefit to buying in this scale, but the current offset from a spending player and some one who buys in bulk is far to drastic, even if the spending player totals up to the same purchase amount in the end. The bonus shouldn't be a 100% gain maybe more like 10 or 20% for bulk.

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tio you hit the nail on the head. lot's of people think buying anything less than the $100.99 pack to get 550 cubes means your wasting money... and when you do have an extra $100 in your bank account and go to spend it on cubes you ask yourself "is this really necessary?"

i'd rather be able to spend $10 whenever an op presents itself that i'm having fun with instead of feeling obligated to buy $100 at once because its twice the value.

i will impulse buy like many others, and have a good job, but $100 to me is not in the category of "impulse".

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Kirra that's Exactly it. I think most people cant afford more than $40 a month on a game(and would view that as very high), I think packages should be something like...

$5 = 15 cubes ($0.33 per cube, comparable to 500 cubes for $165)

$15 = 50 cubes ($0.30 per cube, comparable to 500 cubes for $150)

$25 = 100 cubes ($0.25 per cube, comparable to 500 cubes for $125)

No other packages just the 3.

Id make it so you can buy multiple packages in one transaction. so some one can buy $10 worth of cubes, or $125. big spenders will always be big spenders and $25 more shouldn't phase them much to get 500 cubes, This makes the smaller packages much more cost effective.

Also the exchange rate system should be modified to make spending worth while on a weekly basis. it is possible the exchange system as it is now, could balance out on its own with the changes in spending habits, but may not.

Just my thoughts on it.

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