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Pay To Win

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well in my opinion, qonqr is one of the best balanced games you can spend money on ingame items... usualy the gap between the "free players" and the ones who spend money is much bigger (beside the games you can purchase stuff that has no effect on gameplay)

so keep up the good work for future expansions!

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I'm in an area where the Swarm is outnumbered and we couldn't expand our territory without cubes. We can, however, defend all of our zones without them because the game is terribly unbalanced... But it's not unbalanced because of cubes. It's unbalanced because one person can hold off six attackers, without cubing, for 12 hours and only lose around 200k from the zone. Which is little enough that it can be rebuilt overnight while the attackers sleep. Defense is far too strong in this game, but then I can't help but suspect that's because it encourages people to buy cubes.

On a related note... People whining about me spending money actually encourages me to spend more money. I hope they stop doing it because cubing is actually really boring.

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Overdosing on cubes does run the risk removing the challenge against an opponent. Chucking a load of money into a battle to win with ease seems unsportsmanlike. I try not to succumb to the temptation, just glad to see new players popping up giving me bots to kill and regional operations working nicely. :-D

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We can, however, defend all of our zones without them because the game is terribly unbalanced...

The game use to be balanced so that attackers had the upper hand. 1 player could drop 500k zones, while now you need 5-10 players. Attack was the only way of playing unless you have like.. 10-15 active players. Then you could defend zones.

They ditched this because there was no way to hold onto anything, unless you had superior numbers or had no active players near you. When they updated the server my area went from a battle zone to a standstill moreso, with me playing against 5 actives. San Marcos went from heavily contested to fully supported and defended in a day been that way ever since...

But, the game use to be alot more... Action Packed fast paced gameplay, compared to todays turtles. Personally I like it more since I enjoy just building up zones more than fighting most of the time.

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The one that started this topic has multiscoped resulting in a two week suspinsion by his own faction who implimented a internal investigation. He harrases any new player who was not Legion he and his pack of buddies would not allow any new player a chance to play, resulting in most to quit. But this time they ran into someone who was not going to be intemidated by him or his cronies. I refused to multi-scope or push new players out of the game but have incouraged all new players in all factions. We worked him over with old fashioned switch and bait moves, and attacked him in his sleep resulting in gaining back what he originaly took from Faceless. It is unfortunite that his network of friends resorted to dishing it out in huge loads but not being a good sportsman where Qonqring was concerned. We now have new players that don't quit because they never stood a chance against multi scoping and being so ganged up on it was hopeless to even try. It was money well spent to even it up and I would do it again to give myself and others a fair chance. We also did most of it without even attacking first they could not help themselves, they played with ego we played for a cause, a chance to win back what was Faceless.

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The one that started this topic has multiscoped resulting in a two week suspinsion by his own faction who implimented a internal investigation. He harrases any new player who was not Legion he and his pack of buddies would not allow any new player a chance to play, resulting in most to quit. But this time they ran into someone who was not going to be intemidated by him or his cronies. I refused to multi-scope or push new players out of the game but have incouraged all new players in all factions. We worked him over with old fashioned switch and bait moves, and attacked him in his sleep resulting in gaining back what he originaly took from Faceless. It is unfortunite that his network of friends resorted to dishing it out in huge loads but not being a good sportsman where Qonqring was concerned. We now have new players that don't quit because they never stood a chance against multi scoping and being so ganged up on it was hopeless to even try. It was money well spent to even it up and I would do it again to give myself and others a fair chance. We also did most of it without even attacking first they could not help themselves, they played with ego we played for a cause, a chance to win back what was Faceless.

Wait silver is multiscoping? NOOOO Silver how could you do this to us!!!

Sorry not everything is about you osagewarrior. Surprise! Now go back to the other post and complain more there.

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The game use to be balanced so that attackers had the upper hand.

That's not what balanced is. That's just unbalanced in the other direction. I want balance in all things! Six of your fully upgraded Austin legion should have been able to take a zone from me a couple of times because I didn't use cubes at all. Of course games like this are constantly being tweaked and I know one day it'll be perfect.

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kitten define not using cubes? Did you use only attacks and defense that did not cost any qredits to deploy? I'm not judging, just asking. I use cubes to buy missiles and to get some of the steeper upgrades. I have limited targets in my state so I go through missiles like their going out of style. but that's just my personal excuse for keeping enough of my normally collected qredits to help with defense. I know that every missile I buy with qredits from a cube frees up the qredits to deploy a strengthen some where else.

I have not yet seen some one who can stand up to 6 players attacking them non stop without having used cubes in some way. which is fine. if you payed for cubes your entitled to have zones that are harder to take.

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Tiomun: I did not use cubes during several attacks, I have used cubes in others. When I did not use cubes I mean that I did not use any refresh or recharge and did not exchange for q. Of course all of the zones in talking about have over a million bots and are properly built. I lost few enough of my bots that they were always rebuilt overnight. The Austin legion are the best in the game, if they couldn't take out more than that then no one could.

I believe the current balance leads to more cube sales and I don't see that being changed. I have no problem with that either. Silver deserves to make money off this game.

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Tiomun: I did not use cubes during several attacks, I have used cubes in others. When I did not use cubes I mean that I did not use any refresh or recharge and did not exchange for q. Of course all of the zones in talking about have over a million bots and are properly built. I lost few enough of my bots that they were always rebuilt overnight. The Austin legion are the best in the game, if they couldn't take out more than that then no one could.

I believe the current balance leads to more cube sales and I don't see that being changed. I have no problem with that either. Silver deserves to make money off this game.

Ty I was curious on your take of using cubes. From what I see there are varying degrees of how people define Cubing. To me it seems the same as you, using refreshes and recharges.

I was not trying to imply anything bad about the Tx legion. They are some of the most active and dedicated I have seen in the game. I I live far enough away where I have not had the chance to work along side them. I would definitely welcome the oportunity.

I do agree. A properly built +1m tower is extremely difficult to over take even with 10+ players. Especially if some of the opposing side are actively defending and clearing the tower. It can take anywhere from a day, to never if local support in the attack drops out.

That said. I do still think the balance in the game is decent. if it was any easier, to take down a target. I think it would be frustrating to the defenders, and almost boring to the attackers. A decently built +1m tower can fall in just about 2.5 hours with 5-6 operatives attacking it, even if there is some actively defending opposition. a poorly built one can take less than a hour.

I always think of a properly built tower in this game as a Boss fight.

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one person can hold off six attackers, without cubing, for 12 hours and only lose around 200k from the zone.

The only way I can see this happening is if they were just trying to ZA down a fully supported (40k of each type of support bot) zone. That is just a silly way to attack against a solo defender. With 6 attackers they should have been able to clear 750k to a million bots in 12 hours at minimum, and that assuming they don't use a beachhead and add their own support bots which is very doable with that large a difference in players. It sounds like you should be glad they haven't upgraded from solo to group tactics.

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The only way I can see this happening is if they were just trying to ZA down a fully supported (40k of each type of support bot) zone. That is just a silly way to attack against a solo defender. With 6 attackers they should have been able to clear 750k to a million bots in 12 hours at minimum, and that assuming they don't use a beachhead and add their own support bots which is very doable with that large a difference in players. It sounds like you should be glad they haven't upgraded from solo to group tactics.

I am seriously offended that you would insult my amazing Austin legion. You haven't played against them. If you were not swarm I would invite you to come to Austin and try to attack any of my zones with six of your friends. You won't get very far, even if I'm the only one defending. You certainly won't do half as well as my wonderful enemies do. I think you just build your zones poorly, or perhaps you are only moderately active, I can't imagine losing that many bots that quickly against only six people. Stop building your zones with nothing but seekers and shockwaves then come back insult people who are better than you (I'm still talking about the Austin legion, they are better than you).

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I am seriously offended that you would insult my amazing Austin legion. You haven't played against them. If you were not swarm I would invite you to come to Austin and try to attack any of my zones with six of your friends. You won't get very far, even if I'm the only one defending. You certainly won't do half as well as my wonderful enemies do. I think you just build your zones poorly, or perhaps you are only moderately active, I can't imagine losing that many bots that quickly against only six people. Stop building your zones with nothing but seekers and shockwaves then come back insult people who are better than you (I'm still talking about the Austin legion, they are better than you).

Ha, if my enemies fought like this I would love them too!

Let's assume they use a fairly basic attack strategy going up against the most common defense which consists of mostly Deflectors. Against fully supported defenses and with 100% upgrades on both sides a Shockwave will kill ~1000 bots and Plasma Beam puts up similar numbers. Assuming they shoot a Plasma Beam (to clear any Seekers you've deployed) and then empty their bot tank with Shockwaves (to make it unlikely you'll get more Seekers up), let their tanks refill, then do it again they'll get 14-16 deployments per hour. If we call it 14 we have:

1000 kills/deploy * 14 deploys/(person * hour) * 12 hours = 168,000 kills/person

168,000 kills/person * 6 people = 1,008,000 kills

Now you'll be putting bots in your zone to help defend as the fight goes, but you'll be using ZA and Seekers which have 1150 and 1200 bots per deploy respectively. Lets assume you put out 1200 bots per deploy, 16 deploys per hour, and we'll even pretend your Seekers and ZA have the same survivability as Deflectors.

1200 bots/deploy * 16 deploys/hour * 12 hours = 230,400 bots added to the zone over the 12 hours

1,008,000 kills - 230,400 additions = 777,600 bots net loss, best case

Now, you might have hundreds of thousands of Absorbers in the zone, in which case their kills will be cut in half so we'll end up with

1,008,000 kills / 2 = 504,000 kills

504,000 kills - 230,400 additions = 273,600 bots net loss, best case

Since these match your numbers and you claim your attackers are competent let's assume this is what's happening. Can you keep up with the attack, lasting only 12 hours/day (rather than a more common 18), for an extended period without buying cubes? Your limit there will be how many Absorbers you can buy a day, e.g. how much you can harvest in a day. Knowing Absorbers cost 1 qredit per bot and assuming perfect harvesting:

4200 qredits/harvest * 1/3 harvest/hour * 24 hours/day = 33,600 qredits/day

=> 33,600 Absorbers/day you can replace, or ~12% of your losses

Even in the absolute best case for you, in their attack, your defense, and your qredit gathering you aren't going to keep up with an attack for long against 6 people. You've said it was a million+ bot zone, let's assume you have 1 million Absorbers in the zone, how long would they hold out?

1,000,000 Absorbers / (273,600 lost - 33,600 added) Absorbers/day = 4.17 days

Best case, you don't even last a week. Here in the birthplace of Qonqr you might make it two days. Maybe someday you should come visit us here in the Twin Cities (just drive up 35 until it gets cold) and join in a battle with 20-30+ people on each side, then you'll learn what it's like to actually have to defend a zone.

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Let's assume they use a fairly basic attack strategy going up against the most common defense which consists of mostly Deflectors. Against fully supported defenses and with 100% upgrades on both sides a Shockwave will kill ~1000 bots and Plasma Beam puts up similar numbers. Assuming they shoot a Plasma Beam (to clear any Seekers you've deployed) and then empty their bot tank with Shockwaves (to make it unlikely you'll get more Seekers up), let their tanks refill, then do it again they'll get 14-16 deployments per hour. If we call it 14 we have:

1000 kills/deploy * 14 deploys/(person * hour) * 12 hours = 168,000 kills/person

168,000 kills/person * 6 people = 1,008,000 kills

What are you talking about? Kittens has volunteered to show some kill ratios for us today ;)

Sorry the pic is so big.

2013_08_27_09_59_57_zpsc27cf6ae.jpg

I wish we could get 1000 kills per launch...

So it would really take us ...

730 kills/deploy * 14 deploys/(person * hour) * 12 hours = 122,640 kills/person

122,640 kills/person * 6 people = 735,840 kills

This is also including if we didn't defend any of our other zones, and everyone stayed in range for 12 hours straight doing nothing but qonqr. Also that Kittens did nothing to protect herself, which don't deny if we where getting to 700,000 of your bots killed off there might be some cubing ;p

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