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Gadgerson

Cheater Checking Chart Feedback

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I don't think the tool should be made public. It will give cheaters a tool to use to query themselves so they don't meet the requirements for cheating. However; I do like the details of:

"Once you submit someone, you cannot submit someone else for 30 days. However, if you were right, or we feel that it was a good challenge (even if it doesn’t result in a ban) we will give you back your challenge. To avoid instances where people are creating fake accounts just to get more submissions, only level 100 players may submit cheaters."

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I agree with F3NR0AR... you give up too much info telling people what you factor in as cheating and they will game the system so that it doesn't appear as if they are cheating.

A better option... I suggest you come up with an algorithm that can put a percentage value on the likelihood of two usernames being cheaters that the site could run... but don't publicize what your criteria are or how the algorithm is actually run... keep it a secret.

Then, if the likelihood is over a certain percent the site allows the user to submit them to support as likely cheats. I also think that the limitation on requests to check for cheats and submitting them to support for investigation should be limited as you propose.

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The fact that it shows distance between the targets is a major problem. This tool could be used to find the location of other players. If this is implemented in its current form I will not feel safe playing this game. I love Qonqr but with some of the lines that have already been crossed by people in our area, I have no faith that my home won't be vandalized or that I could potentially be assaulted.

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Thanks for the comments. This is only the first step that determines if someone may be a cheater. I understand your concerns. While this might help a cheater, it would require them to get someone else (their wife/husband/kid/coworker) to deploy at the same time (with very accurate coordination down to 30 seconds) once every 5th time they empty their scope, while they dive away from home or work at least 2 KM. This would be a very difficult task to accomplish day in and day out. It very well may show a cheater how to cheat, but I think most would give up and just use one device. Also, we have many players who look like multi-scopers but are not. This chart would encourage them to play more independently to prove they are two separate people.

It appears there is concern over showing the graph. Most believe it is too much information. We considered just showing a number of "liklihood" or a yes/no to allow a submission. Unfortunately, I'm not confident this will stop the hate mail we receive to support that out tool is wrong because they are "obviously" the same person. Perhaps there is no stopping that. Keep the comments coming. We want to hear all the arguments for and against.

Also, there was a concern over triangulation on Facebook comments. The distances will be rounded to the nearest kilometer so you cannot pinpoint someone.

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I also agree with F3N and reef as well, if cheaters know the criteria for how cheaters are discovered, they will know what to avoid doing. Also, people who multiscope may not just do it to gain a gameplay advantage, they may also have other motives such as gaining access to an enemy faction's intel/chatrooms/etc. In that sort of case they can easily game the system. If the details of cheater detection are kept hidden, they may be less paranoid, making it easier to obtain actual proof of their cheating.

Consider the following scenario: let's say I was an unscrupulous individual and wanted in on Legion forums and chatrooms more than a gameplay advantage. By seeing this, I would use my main acct normally, but use the second (multiscope) Legion acct only at work, and various other non-home locations. If I work far enough away from my home, I can fairly easily make it seem as though I am two people, with nearly nothing suspicious.

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Slipstream, when you say automated are you suggesting that every time you launch we compare the last few thousand launches of all players around you and automatically ban you if likelihood passes a certain threshold? If that is what you mean, then it isn't technically feasible to do that. But if it was something else, please elaborate.

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Ultimately you have to do what you think is right for the game I just hope that you give more than enough warning that this will be implemented so that I make sure I stop deploying so that there is no chance that the people that have felt the need to stalk me in real life don't have any chance of being able to find me through this tool.

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This is great as a v1 solution. Plus, the perception of being able to self police should stop enough of the problem. Hopefully this enables you guys to spend more time working on game futures.

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I share evermoor's concerns with this tool, and although the area of triangulation might seem large, you'd be surprised the lengths people would go to really pinpoint your location when they have a stalker mentality. I see this tool as incredibly creepy and I will likely stop playing the game in order to protect myself and my spouse from potential harm. As irrational as it might seem that someone who has harmed you in the past would stumble upon the game Qonqr and discover it has this kind of tool and then use it to find you, it's a stark reality to a victim. This tool crosses the line, sorry.

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I also agree with Evermor on the location tool being a possible danger in real life, and I believe that any system that requires a possible multiscoper to meet certain requirements before they are checked will only lead to an explosion of multiscopers who easily fly under the radar. I do, however, like the idea of a multiscoping claim only being allowed once per span of time by level 100's.

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Thank you all for your amazing feedback.This is why we ask before we publish. This is very beneficial to us and we hope you guys keep the conversation rolling. We will take everything you say here into consideration, and we are already working on alternatives. Thanks again!

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While I appreciate attempts to deal with cheating I have a two concerns.

1) Exposing the algorithm to ID cheaters shows too much of your hand.

2) I worry that spending to much time on busting cheaters will slow development of the game.

Qonqr has a small staff and limited resources. The game badly needs a refresh and other features. I know of several players who have quit because of boredom and a few more who have left because of cubing. So the game as some balance issues to work out. There have been quite a few brain storming sessions in Legion groups to address these issues, but this thread is not the place to bring that up. I do suggest that a suggestion box or feature request and feedback thread be opened.

In Chicago, once we adopted group chat, multi-scoping ceased to be a big deal for us. With a bit of team work (this is a geo-social game right?) we could over come multi-scoping players. Chicago is a target rich place and I can understand in rural areas multi-scoping can ruin the game. But the downstate folks I talk to seem to be OK with it.

I just don't think cheating is the most burning issue in Qonqr right now. Game balance and new features, hallmarks of the micro-purchase F2P games is what makes or breaks a game.

We need balance between the cubing players, and the free players. That, right now, is becoming a crisis. I'm all for Qonqr being in the black, but don't fall into the trap of gold ammo. (World of Tanks reference for those who don't know).

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So you guys seriously get hate mail? Wow. I think anything that lets the detective nature of this game thrive is good. Drop command center and let the server find cheaters is my vote. To those that feel this tool may invade privacy, twitter and other social media is your real enemy.

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ChiClyde,

While I agree with you that multi-scoping isn't the most "burning issue"... due to the amount of requests we get per day, it is the thing that is taking up all our time and keeping us from addressing things that you guys would like to see us work on instead.

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First off, thank you Silver for making a thoughtful effort at combating cheating (multi-scoping). I think have you endeavored to come up with a creative solution to a problem which I am sure consumes a lot of your personal time; time that could be better spent developing new or improved aspects of the game. But, I do not believe this tool will enhance or benefit the player experience or the game environment. Also, I feel that this tool will have more of an adverse affect on the community, instead of a positive one.

First, their will always be cheating (in the form of multi-scoping) as long as we (players) are permitted to have our household family members play with us or 'together'. Each family situation is different. Some players I know only play together because their lives require them to be occupied with work or family at the same time. The tool only validates what a lot of people may already know about a player; that two players are in the same location and deploying at the same time. The tool does not tell you what the intentions of the player(s) are or why those operatives deploy at the same time (ie: what their personal lives dictate for time dedicated to playing the game). It is my view that the tool will generate a lot of false positives, since you have to verify each case independently. The tool will just provide the public with the means to harass or potentially defame or at the least character assassinate a player in the forums, FB, Twitter, etc., before any investigation by yourself has been conducted or concluded. This will result in players quitting in frustration.

Secondly, the presence of the tool works against the positive/fun aspects of the game and replaces those aspects with negative and divisive attributes. Now, instead of focusing on team building, strategy, relationship building, working together, etc., the tool becomes the nexus for dividing people, breaking relationships, working to disrupt or de-harmonize the game experience. I almost feel that more people will spend time on this tool checking to see whether two players 'could' be potential cheaters than actually playing the game. I envision the forums blowing up with cheater accusations, screen-caps of alleged cheaters and fights and arguments over banning people. In essence, I see this tool diminishing the entertainment value of the game and further dividing the community.

Thirdly, there are inherent privacy and abuse concerns I see with this tool. An op could put his/her own name in and that of a player they wish to 'hone' in on for the purpose of physically stalking them. Three ops could drive around a suspect target's home or business for several days, deploying when the target is deploying and using that data to triangulate or guesstimate where someone is, or is not. I understand it wouldn't be real-time knowledge, but it would be enough information to generate a pattern of behavior for that person (ie: when they are home or not, when they are at work, etc.). We have had problems with an operative in our area stalking one of our local players. We believe that player is so obsessed that they would use this tool to potentially "get" to our faction member. Our faction member is considering quitting if this tool goes public because of the privacy and abuse concerns. Other faction members are considering quitting because they are upset that their cube money is being spent on development of this instead of the game itself.

Lastly, QONQR has been around for nearly two years with few changes to the game experience and storyboard. It is our hope (paying players) that our cube purchase go to enriching the game and not creating more divisiveness and paranoia. We already have plenty of that. I will be the first to admit I have made reports to support regarding multiscopers, but I would rather live with cheaters and defeat them through recruiting and positive faction culture instead of introducing a tool which could have very detrimental affects to both the player community and the spirit of the game itself. Instead of focusing on the development of cheater detectors, I would personally like to see new weapons, missions/quests, new metrics and leader boards, new in-game communications, etc.

I know it is a complex issue, but I feel that the best way to handle blatant multiscoping is to talk to the operatives and investigate each case separately and privately. I understand it is more time consuming, but, divert some of those cube purchases to hiring a few more folks to do the investigative work instead of deputizing the public. Mass hysteria never ends well...

~misterbig

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Until there is the threat of a main account "ban" and that user must start that main account from nothing and all subsequent bots eliminates from the field of play... This will continue. I do however like the quip in the middle referencing other posts. Good stuff

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Like most others, I would not suggest you publish this info. It could lead to analysis patterns of gameplay that could give someone an unfair advantage (ex: timing of launches, distance from teammates, etc).

I understand the desire to get people to quit whining when you've investigated multiscoping. But that won't change no matter what you do - especially if Android ever really does come fully online. I think it's just one of those things where you take the bad with the good. There are cheaters out there, there are honest people who are convinced that clean players are cheaters, and there are people who just want to cause problems for someone else to gain an advantage.

You want to keep it clean, but I would advise against catering too much to the paranoid side. Your word about the investigation should be good enough.

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