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There has been a lot of thread spamming about this topic lately and I apologize for adding to it, but I wanted to add a thread that embodies all the conversation on C.E.L. instead of having a separate thread for individual C.E.L.-related comments.

C.E.L. = Council to Eliminate Legion

For those unaware, C.E.L. was originally a Florida based alliance of Swarm and Faceless against Legion. It has since spread to other areas. It is no different than Swegion or whatever you call Faceless and Legion (Facegion? Legless?).

I spent some time with C.E.L. before becoming Legion and have to say, their best attribute that makes them such a devastating force, isn't their numbers, but their organization.

Who leads C.E.L.?

C.E.L. leads C.E.L.

There is no “one” distinct leader. As in any group, clique, family, etc. there are those who take on a leadership role. These are often the people who are more outspoken/charismatic, those with the ability to rally others behind them. They may be Swarm or Faceless, and they may change from one moment to another as members join and leave with different personalities.

How Many members does C.E.L. have?

It is hard to say how many members C.E.L. has because not everyone in C.E.L. is either active or in Groupme. Some Swarm and Faceless just observe the alliance because a member of C.E.L. mentioned it to them.

Does C.E.L. dominate by its numbers?

The key to C.E.L.'s strength is not in their numbers, but in their coordination with their active members. Having been a part of both Legion and C.E.L. rooms, the numbers are relatively close in active members, but Legion is a lot more disorganized. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that much of Legion members are in Northern FL and a few of the Southern members are no longer around, leaving a select few Legion in South Florida.

Why are so many complaints coming from Florida?

As has been complained about, Florida is unique from the rest of the U.S., in that it doesn't have any land bordering more than 75% of it. Also, Florida is 721km long, so for some of us in south FL, all attacks are limited to whatever is in our immediate area and North of us.

For those in other states, imagine your range to be about 150 km on all sides except north, where you get your full 400 km range.

Does C.E.L. Pressure other Faceless/Swarm to join?

No. In my time in C.E.L., never have I heard anyone say, I guess I’ll be in C.E.L., I was given no choice.

Does C.E.L. Attack non-C.E.L. Faceless/Swarm?

C.E.L. is an alliance in its own. While their primary target is Legion, it is open game for non-members as well. For the most part, C.E.L. leaves these non-C.E.L., Faceless/Swarm, alone, unless those individuals are causing issues. I’ve heard some C.E.L. swarm that have truces with non-C.E.L. Faceless and vice-versa as well as some having drawn out battles with each other.

In most cases, the non-C.E.L. Swarm/Faceless is left alone in case they later decide to join C.E.L. or in case they actually are a member (inactive or non-Groupme user) or observer of the truce.

Does Faceless/Swarm Hold More Power in C.E.L.?

Nope. When I had first joined, one of the first things I remembered was a lot of talk about how evenly distributed zones were. In fact, Tetra has a post supporting this [Here] that shows how close in numbers Swarm and Faceless are. One of their biggest emphasis is on equality between the two factions and I’ve even heard in ops, “Okay, Faceless captured the last zone, so this one is yours, Swarm.” (…and vice versa).

You are Bullying New Legion Players into Quitting or Switching!

The role of the game is to fight, this is a war game. As Faceless, I fought with Legion Newbies, as Legion, I will fight Swarm/Faceless Newbies. If they quit because of that, then this game isn’t for them. In fact, you level faster by attacking zones, then you do by stacking them.

The idea is strategy and survival of the fittest!

Conclusion

Whether it were C.E.L. or if all the C.E.L. members were Faceless or all Swarm, it wouldn’t matter. In fact, it would likely be even worse for Legion, since it is easier to unify all as one faction, at least this gives C.E.L. a handicap in that they are limited in being able to support each other without attacking each other.

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So many lovely well chosen words, but let me be direct.

Thank you, CEL, for any help you have given our people in their times of need or those who are not in range of the swarm security team.

Question for non-merc Swarm Members or neighbors of CEL:

Are you happy with your current conditions and enjoying your QONQR experience?

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Pulling this from another thread as it's highly relevant, disputed everywhere else... including the OP here

Wow I guess I missed the whole purpose of this thread.

So the purpose of the thread.

1. That we encourages people to join Cel. Yep 100% agree with that. Will disagree if you say forced.

2. That CEL wouldn't support people who went against the Cel idea(swarm vs Cel faceless faceless vs Cel swarm). Yep. Will admit that.

(just fyi legion has done the same thing. One of the reasons the alliance we had in central Florida went down). Plus that is the way alliance work typically. (vs puppet states)

3. That Cel members attack people that attack them. Yep. At the heart this is a game about conquering. Yep. That is the nature of the game.

We didn't need multiple pages on two different threads to come to that conclusion. The amazing thing is that Cel has lasted this long. Part if the reason was we had a strong common enemy in legion. Maybe this will be the downfall of Cel because legion will no longer be a strong common threat.

Basically, join or die while the [same color]-cel false flagging faceless/swarm look the other way... unless you are legion, and then just die because it's a two faction game in florida & the faction suggestion newbies get is going to be based on the assumption that those false flag sporting cel folks being swarm/faceless.

Edit: Monk, http://imgur.com/JNysGTNas to finding swarm neighbors of cel?... there are apparantly two in the entire region... Yes... the number 2.

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Yes, if a member of CEL is attacked by a non-member of CEL (be it Swarm or Faceless), that CEL member has a right to defend themselves.

It makes sense that they would defend themselves.

I fought as a newbie, and I'm sure you must have fought as a newbie. That is the game.

It is NOT sit in a corner and stack and hope no one knocks your pretty tower down.

It is how you learn. A tower gets knocked down, next time it is rebuilt better, stronger.

I'm not sure why the complaint though, as their Faceless vs non-CEL Swarm or their Swarm vs non-CEL Faceless should only prove helpful to us Legion.

In regard to the "2" non-CEL Swarm in Florida.

I pulled up the top 50 list and Florida and about 5 or 6 Swarms names, I didn't recognize during my membership in CEL.

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Yes, if a member of CEL is attacked by a non-member of CEL (be it Swarm or Faceless), that CEL member has a right to defend themselves.

It makes sense that they would defend themselves.

I fought as a newbie, and I'm sure you must have fought as a newbie. That is the game.

It is NOT sit in a corner and stack and hope no one knocks your pretty tower down.

It is how you learn. A tower gets knocked down, next time it is rebuilt better, stronger.

I'm not sure why the complaint though, as their Faceless vs non-CEL Swarm or their Swarm vs non-CEL Faceless should only prove helpful to us Legion.

In regard to the "2" non-CEL Swarm in Florida.

I pulled up the top 50 list and Florida and about 5 or 6 Swarms names, I didn't recognize during my membership in CEL.

From MC's IGM(above), "There are two swarm I know of not in cel". You seem to be under the impression that we have not watched qommnd or contacted our neighbors getting replies like this. We keep seeing posts from cel claiming there are a few (at least 2) non-cel swarm residents in the state who still play, but There's a huge silence to "ok, prove it if you are so sure." As to your looking at a few names on the leaderboard, with the truce it virtually guarantees that their bots will be around for a lonnnnng time. Considering a large part of my motivation in carpetbombing tampa with a few thousand missiles late last year was due to a couple cel folks over there having separately complained to me about how it was too stale because nobody was willing to take back cel-player owned territory owned by people who quit playing months ago. Legion generally has little interest in taking zones in areas they can't reach or defend, missiles are useless for defense & expensive. So with the number climbing, you still aren't naming names... afraid you will get "dude they quit playing months/year+ ago, I'm not surprised you don't recognize them?"

You keep going on about people having a right to "defend themselves" while missing the point. Specifically "That CEL wouldn't support people who went against the Cel idea(swarm vs Cel faceless faceless vs Cel swarm). Yep. Will admit that."if they say they aren't interested in cel, for whatever reason, the [matching colored]-cel has every incentive to simply look the other way when the other half the state rains down on them again & again.

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The question still remains, how is it any different if CEL all became Faceless or all became Swarm? Other than them becoming even more powerful?

As for relying on qommnd for proof, I don't use that anymore since half the time, active players, don't show up on there. I've seen legion students of jbrockman, stacking zones, but qommnd didn't even list them as actual players, or if it did, it showed a few deployments way back. And all that was before the API change to block seeing recent activity.

I will agree though, just because a Swarm player isn't in CEL, doesn't mean they don't observe the truce.

As for assisting non-CEL members. That is up to each individual member. If a CEL member wants to help a non-CEL member, they will do it of their own accord, just depends on their personality, individually. But no, a CEL member would not assist a non-CEL in attacking another CEL member, that would make no sense.

Your arguments on support make very little sense.

The ONLY argument you have, is that it is unfair, the number of CEL members vs the number of Legion, and even that is close, but because of being in Florida, the spread makes it difficult.

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Basically, join or die while the [same color]-cel false flagging faceless/swarm look the other way... unless you are legion, and then just die because it's a two faction game in florida & the faction suggestion newbies get is going to be based on the assumption that those false flag sporting cel folks being swarm/faceless.

No, it isn't join or die.

It is, if you are Legion, you die!

If you are not, you are safe unless you attack CEL (or are annoying someone: in CEL or a friend of CEL).

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From my experience with the politics (and slime) of multi-faction truces, I wonder if the inherent game mechanics could be adjusted to encourage alliances, but at a level that isn't game breaking. What I mean by this is abolishing the factions and allowing players to create their own group (like a clan in clash of clans). There would be wrinkles to still fold out, but with a small cap on how many players can be in a "clan", it would allow alliances without them becoming into bullying situation of a "2v1" with cel (or that stupid legion-swarm thing in Seattle). Just my 2 cents on the topic.

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The question still remains, how is it any different if CEL all became Faceless or all became Swarm? Other than them becoming even more powerful?

As for relying on qommnd for proof, I don't use that anymore since half the time, active players, don't show up on there. I've seen legion students of jbrockman, stacking zones, but qommnd didn't even list them as actual players, or if it did, it showed a few deployments way back. And all that was before the API change to block seeing recent activity.

I will agree though, just because a Swarm player isn't in CEL, doesn't mean they don't observe the truce.

As for assisting non-CEL members. That is up to each individual member. If a CEL member wants to help a non-CEL member, they will do it of their own accord, just depends on their personality, individually. But no, a CEL member would not assist a non-CEL in attacking another CEL member, that would make no sense.

Your arguments on support make very little sense.

The ONLY argument you have, is that it is unfair, the number of CEL members vs the number of Legion, and even that is close, but because of being in Florida, the spread makes it difficult.

"No, it isn't join or die."

  • there are 20-30some posts arguing this point leading up to richin eventually making the post above giving the same circumstances that lead to it with "yep, we do that". you might not, but cel does... maybe it's time to rethink your membership.. however, one semi-active non-cel incapable of holding anything before my decision to attack cel from within that is barely in range of zones at work only barely reachable with some bots while I too am at work is hardly proof of a non-problem.

if bots sides if cel went to one faction,there are a lit of differences & I'm using bullet points. Many of them relate to each other.

  • the built in population dispersal mechanics that look at a newbie's surrounding zones would stop having a 50% chance of recruiting a newbie for them
    • it would drop to 1 in 3 in areas where cel doesn't dominate too strongly depending on the skew there & more like 0 in places where they have an unhealthy grip.

    [*] cel would no longer be able to only tell half the story to a newbie about how they don't -need- to align with cel & force them to join/quit simply by virtue of all the [samecolor]-cel looking the other way with"I'm cel, ill only ever attac k legion" style excuses when the other half of cel raina down on the holdout.

    [*] cel would instantly become a "subfaction" rather than a combined/superfaction.

    [*]cel could no longer grant blanket state wide truce with virtually all members of two factions by sporting false flags for them both.

    [*]cel could no longer maintain the "You don't have to join, but don't rock the boat because you have no non-cel [same color] players who will stand up against half of cel stomping you & reclaiming gains until you see the error of your ways" as a lure to toe the line when someone is not actually interested in joining cel but ever starts to consider stepping away from the line.

    [*]If a subfaction of faceless (cel) got to the point that they were acting like brock & the kids often do, just like with brock & the kids... people would start getting a lot less excited about launching missiles to help them as opposed to someone like rual, tomb, seleas, wvance,myself, cantine, axxr/ironside/impact(pretty much/did all quit), etc who tend to get lots of missile assistance (missiles are of no help in defense, certainly not against 10-20+ attackers.

    [*]if/when that subfaction acts antisocially & starts looking like bullies, less involved players of that faction will start wondering why they are always needing help against members of the other two factions with barely any presence among a sea of local purple domination. Help taking down a large tower?... sure... help reclaiming a zone you lost because it was one of 30+ with >200k-1m bots with no lattice/support because it fell a couple days ago & you just noticed... not so much

    [*]"if you are Legion, you die! If you are not, you are safe unless you attack CEL (or are annoying someone: in CEL or a friend of CEL)."... So in otherwords "I will agree though, just because a Swarm player isn't in CEL, doesn't mean they don't observe the truce." observe the truce or die"... Oh yea, that's real different than "join or die" alright... :rolleyes: :blink::(

    [*]By quitting the false-flag silliness, they lose a lot of their strength for all the reasons noted above

Your individual qommnd points might very well be valid, but qommnd is spot on when it comes to reporting changes in bot totals. when 100% of the times where someone lost bots are either the not so significant tourist or have legion on one side of the quation for months it proves exactly that statewide (not just near tampa in/around strawberry crest).... and remember with most of the active legion in the state flipping to swarm/faceless to plant bases under one side of cel while tearing down the other it makes doing that now very difficult ;).

For those reading along, when it comes to "brock & the kids", most of them are <100 with partial scopes & pretty much only play as a group... It's not a big shock that qommnd might not tract that some of them are actually players in the region, I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of people who once deployed from a large hub airport ho don't show up as players in that area either.

" the spread makes it difficult." The uinque geography of fl (wetlands) leads to a population dispersal not seen in many places & is why I keep linking this map showing us population density. Between those huge spikes is nothing Take that one along the SE coast (miami-dade/broward/palm beach counties). It's about 30-40 miles wide with ocean on one side & wetlands conservation on the other (i.e. you couldn't build there if you wanted). Take a look at the satelliteview of florida to see it repeated statewide. between the various large spikes are either "more wetlands" or "cows, oranges, & some sugarcane" with almost no human habitation.

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Qommnd doesn't work, I have 120 something zones, qommnd shows none, it's been broken at least for Fl for a few weeks. Bottom line Tetra is just ignore CEL, pretend it isn't there, and don't go legion, CEL looses its purpose, fragments due to boredom, problem solved.

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Qommnd doesn't work, I have 120 something zones, qommnd shows none, it's been broken at least for Fl for a few weeks. Bottom line Tetra is just ignore CEL, pretend it isn't there, and don't go legion, CEL looses its purpose, fragments due to boredom, problem solved.

Yes it does for what I said it does. Here's a pic from just now covering miami>orlando>tampa & a bit more....

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All I see is you guys making new threads for the same argument and making the same points... I love drama as much as the next person but this seems a little excessive.

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Please dont quote me incorrectly. Never once did i say do or die. Said encourage people to join. Which is no different then ANY faction does. Have had a few faceless /swarm ask me for help in Florida because they are in legion area and were told if they don't join legion they.will be destroyed.

I am still struggling to see the point of the multiple post.

You can replace Cel with a dominate group of faceless or swarm or legion and the 98% of your comments about what is going are the same. (look in old forum posts)

To me your arguments boil down to "it is not fair that I cannot get swarm to attack faceless in Florida". (assuming that it swarm since you you joined swarm but to be fair it could faceless to attack swarm).

As many people have said Cel is not do or die. It is here is the benefits of joining.

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Please dont quote me incorrectly. Never once did i say do or die. Said encourage people to join. Which is no different then ANY faction does. Have had a few faceless /swarm ask me for help in Florida because they are in legion area and were told if they don't join legion they.will be destroyed.

I am still struggling to see the point of the multiple post.

You can replace Cel with a dominate group of faceless or swarm or legion and the 98% of your comments about what is going are the same. (look in old forum posts)

To me your arguments boil down to "it is not fair that I cannot get swarm to attack faceless in Florida". (assuming that it swarm since you you joined swarm but to be fair it could faceless to attack swarm).

As many people have said Cel is not do or die. It is here is the benefits of joining.

Bolding a statement, does not a misquote make... and you did.

Wow I guess I missed the whole purpose of this thread.

So the purpose of the thread.

1. That we encourages people to join Cel. Yep 100% agree with that. Will disagree if you say forced.

2. That CEL wouldn't support people who went against the Cel idea(swarm vs Cel faceless faceless vs Cel swarm). Yep. Will admit that.

(just fyi legion has done the same thing. One of the reasons the alliance we had in central Florida went down). Plus that is the way alliance work typically. (vs puppet states)

3. That Cel members attack people that attack them. Yep. At the heart this is a game about conquering. Yep. That is the nature of the game.

We didn't need multiple pages on two different threads to come to that conclusion. The amazing thing is that Cel has lasted this long. Part if the reason was we had a strong common enemy in legion. Maybe this will be the downfall of Cel because legion will no longer be a strong common threat.

accept the the cause/toe the line or die alone is no different than join or die.

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Saying that you will not support some one that does not support you is in no way shape or form saying join or die.

Again. Not one person has stated that Cel says join or die. That is you miss quoting me. it is very very different then sending a message saying join us or die. CEL basically ignore the player. Does it make it harder for them to play yes. To they respond to an attack yes. But what would you expect to happen in a conqueror type of game

Again. So what great cheat problem or thing has CEL done that is uniquely part of Cel? In other part of the worlds it can be swarm and legion against faceless? the game is made up of three factions and it is common for alliances to form against stronger foes (which is what happened with Cel).

Just trying to understand the purpose of the message.

Are you trying to justifying going to swarm?

Are you trying to convince the legion to also join swarm?

Are saying Cel did a great job, had members that would sacrifice personal game for the alliance?

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So what you're saying is, if a player eg; facelessop turned down an offer of CEL 'membership' and a month later asked for some help from a fellow faceless member,who is CEL. He wouldn't get the help he asked for.

Effectively leaving them out in the cold.

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Quote doesn't work on my phone Leigh... But exactly take rgus example local neighboring

-Andrew green cel

- bob legion

- Charles purple cel

- David newbie who looks at the map and sees bob is severely outmatched with all the casual cel supporters propping up a & c doesn't need another green/purple-cel and decides to stay swarm/faceless rather than stand around wishing there was someone to fight in a few months. What David faces is that while bob is ecstatic to ally in any way with David... But a&c will call down half of cell on David if attacked but without any faceless/swarm willing to bread the truce David quickly discovers that he cannot forge ties with what should be players of his own faction except the occasional visiting tourist (hardly helpful on the scale needed).

It's very much "join or die alone" the panicked conflicting denials from cel folks you've been seeing lately is the realization of either the past complaints being accurate or the realization that just about all of the active legion in the state have been flipping to swarm/faceless... The scary part is not the flip, but the fact that they are changing to seemingly random cel factions & tearing the truce apart from within while standing in a position of impunity where cel can only counter by eating itselfThe example is highly simplified because we don't need a 1000 word essay to give the summary

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This is all pointless drivel. SWARM will rule the world and walk among the dust of Legion and Faceless. In all seriousness though, a ways up there someone explained the Florida situation 75% coast and what not. That kind of is a **** deal and I can understand why there has to be a more politically geared game being played there. It is much the same situation in Ontario. There is lot of land but a real lack of zones. You stagnate, you stack, you occasionally fight over a zone that you can barely reach. There is only one thing to do to keep the game interesting, join a group and plan ops, help your fellow faction members. I reach out to all Swarm who feel like this. Don't join a silly inter-faction assembly. JOIN SWARM NATION! ONE NATION WITHOUT BORDERS. http://tinyurl.com/SwarmSecurity http://tinyurl.com/newswarm

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Why be in a two faction alliance when you can have all three! CEL might be either good or bad...but GPF is awesome! Just think about all the trouble you'd save yourself, not to mention the fun you'd have, if you were friends with all factions.

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Swarm propaganda at its finest, they even have their own YouTube channel. Someone should do a video on how to properly construct a zone so Boone2112 stops stacking shockwave. Then again, I sure don't mind the kills....

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