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sethowar

Sustained Excessive Qubing

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Everybody has seen it, and every faction has done it at one point or another. My own group has done it, our direct enemies have done it, and people all across the world have whipped out the credit card to take down somebody they aren't a massive fan of.

"The balance we try to strike in QONQR is that a players spending money should be able to overcome a smallish group of players 3-10 players, but would be unable to spend (within reason) to overcome many more than that." - Scott (aka. Silver)

What I have been seeing over the last few days is that it is too easy to spend past the point of "within reason" and use your credit card, rather thank qonqr know how or efficient firing to win. If you are happy to drop $100, you *will* take that 3 million bot zone, no issues, no teamwork, no thinking, no fun. For a very long time I have really disliked that there is no limit or diminishing returns on the use of the plastic to win your battles. I think a increased cost decreased benefit would be amazing, it would give people the ability to go over the top if thats what they want, but also setting some effective cap to stop them going ballistic.

I would love to see a qonqr where there is f2p and p2p, rather than f2p and p2w. Lower the barrier to entry by making the smaller amounts of qubes better value for money, rather than pushing everybody to the $101 category. Then, give them better value for the first cube than the second, and so on.

Potential solutions:

Flat cap on refreshes at some arbitrary number.

Instead of having the daily randomised trade in, have it so that every day we can trade in 1 cube for 10k, then 2 for 7k, 3 for 6k, 4 for 5k, and so on (or some combination around those numbers). This encourages people to dip their feet in the water, and to make sure they open up their app every day to fire, harvest and get that good trade-in.

Remove bot and energy refreshes (crazy right) and instead offer a temporary scope buff that can be purchased from the store, much in the way that you can buy sync lock protection. This could range from an overcharged bot tank capacity, to a 2x scope regen speed at all levels or (my personal favourite) reduce the scope cool down memory from 1 hour to 40 minutes. Then, for another 2 cubes, you could reduce it to 30 minutes, another 5 cubes to 25 etc.

Diminishing returns and lower entry barrier, bringing everybody who wants to support the game to a similar level, and encouraging more regular deployments rather than refresh spamming. This will spread the burden of cost amongst a wider player group, which will mean that you are no longer so dependent and liable to favour those paying the bills (which is 100% reasonable in the current setup). Also, the departure or financial cutoff of any one player will have less of an impact and the income flow will be more of a consistent, rather than the strong spikes and troughs following exchange rates and large in game battles.

I would love a response, either here, or by email. If the answer is simply that you don't think you could stay open using a system like this. If you don't think you acquire enough capital this way... I don't know, run a poll, please do something to convince us that the pain of losing a zone to one man and 2000 plasma is a necessary evil. If you're considering it, already have considered it, or want more information or ideas hallelujah. I'll be the first to start taking advantage of trading in a few cubes every day, and developing habits which will keep the game financially strong and healthy, as well as cleansing some malice out of the community.

TL;DR - Put Cubes on a system of demising returns, and lower barriers to entry for more cash-strapped players.

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"The balance we try to strike in QONQR is that a players spending money should be able to overcome a smallish group of players 3-10 players, but would be unable to spend (within reason) to overcome many more than that." - Scott (aka. Silver)

not seen this quote before, 10 players a small group, really? if one player can hold their own against 10 then that is farcical IMO. but then i don't play in a super busy metroplois, 10 players in teh uk would be half the country more or less being taken out by one guy.

i did make a suggestion of how to counter this, ill try and find it and add a link

edit: i don't think you should get rid of refreshes but i do this that when they are used the regeneration period should be tweaked, each time you use a pack the regen should be going down as well as when you deploy and it should be possible to go to a minus regen [the scope is so over heated that the nanobots melt] and if you just keep refreshing continously as people do eventually it gets to teh point where you refresh it but the nanobots drain out before you even have time to launch, you should be able to go into a negative in your bot tank so you have to wait for the chance to deploy, being able to deploy literally around the clock is plain stupid. when one person can hold their own against 5 or so players then there is something wrong.

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Sounds like you might want to take a look at the thread I posted a couple weeks ago, we could use some more genuine input on it.

Yeah, I posted this before I saw your thread. But until the devs show any interest in starting a conversation we can talk all we like and it won't mean anything. Its not like we're saying abolish qubing, we're just asking for a revisit on it to see if it could be done better. Or at the very least please rejustify why it *has* to be in its current form because its getting exhausting and demoralising.

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On a daily basis since the release of atlantis, there have been instances of players spending, what must be seen in the eyes of the developers to be "excessive amounts" because they are easily overwhelming large groups of active defenders all but single handedly.

Right now, one faceless player (DirtyArab) has been qubing free offensive deployments for a couple of hours. We are pushing back *hard* and having almost no success, as he is able to kill without limit.

The more silence, the more I think that the developer(s) *WANT* us to spend what is in their mind "excessive amounts of money". They are trying to set up a system, in which free, or somewhat free players can work their buts off building for 24 hours, and have it be destroyed in 2 hours by one guy (maybe plus a couple of fairly meaningless lackeys) with $100.

PLEASE give us the option of all 20 of us spending $5 rather than just giving the one guy with $100 an OP and never-ending weapon.

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Lol... some one is not happy about this fun party!! Clearly, Dodgy Arab is not the only cuber lol... there are at least 7 players cubing and I counted a few of yours! Just his bots during attack are visible ;)

What you're really complaining about is the overpowered plasma attack!

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Wait a second! DirtyArab? Who told you? You have cameras in my house? Anyway, really? You that upset with me that you have to try and be rude? Ive been called worse. Ive called myself worse. Actually dirtyarab is one of my emails.

Firstly: I have 0 interest in Atlantis and only involved myself because of a call for a help a few days ago. Im not sure ill be going back to it when it resets.

Secondly: I agree about the limit on refreshes. I posted about it in that linked thread. Few tweaks. Maybe no limit if your defending a zone your faction controls. Maybe refresh the limit if someone else refreshes. I dont know. There is lots to think about. Let me make this clear: I have no complaints my end on anyone refreshing. I just see the imbalance and wish the devs would look into it and come up with something that still makes them money AND will keep the non paying casual players happy. But lets not be unrealistic about what we expect. If they change too much they might end up losing the people who pay and keep this game alive.

Thirdly: You guys do realise that you lot were refreshing as hard as i was right? Other Faceless were refreshing as well but ill let them speak for themselves. I honestly thought you Rooster and Willie (maybe others sorry if i did not notice) were having a good time fighting other people equally matched. You made me work hard. The fight did not stop for ages. You dont find it a little odd that you guys are happy to refresh for a few hours straight but when you give up/lose/dont want to spend any more then you come on the forums, complain about me directly and want a limit on refreshes? Cant you just say "good fight". I thought it was a great fight. Was struggling like mad. We all went crazy for a few hours but none of you had fun? Why play at all if you don't enjoy it? Why did you bother refreshing at all? Ive been saying limit refreshes from the start cause i saw the imbalance. I didnt wait till i lost a fight to suddenly have this opinion. 10v1? Rubbish. Give me 40 to 50 non refreshing players against one unlimited refreshing player and that "cuber" will win.

So you were happy to plamsa bomb refresh the xxxx out of compass the other day, and from the looks of it right now as i type this. But your enemies must not do the same? And even though you have twice the number of players involved in Atlantis (this round) then we do and cooperating with Legion, we are somehow spoiling the game by using refreshes. Surely this is the perfect time to be using them. (Not complaining about Swarm and Legion teaming up against Faceless. Its a viable tactic).

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I am not saying it is not a current and valid tactic - just don't see how you can unload more in say 1 hour than a free to play player can in 4-5 days - balance is not right. If you progressed my deploys they were nearly all cube free except for a small amount (maybe 30-40) when I hit the sack during the early attack phase - so you see my near 3000 shots and think cubing - no it is just commitment to the cause - but you fire this is a couple of hours (I did cube when you got close to my HL- you saw my abs for a little while, wanted you to make you pay just that little bit more!)-

I dont mind spending on the game (I am so called "elite"). But per Silver quote above - 1 cuber can take on more that 3-10 free to play players. Its about balance - dont worry changing the rules will effect me at times as well but if it keeps more free players in the game - then you have more bots to kill and they may become spenders as well (I didnt spend for quite a while)

Enjoy the spoils of the battle today - lets see the outcome of the war!

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On a daily basis since the release of atlantis, there have been instances of players spending, what must be seen in the eyes of the developers to be "excessive amounts" because they are easily overwhelming large groups of active defenders all but single handedly.

Right now, one faceless player (DirtyArab) has been qubing free offensive deployments for a couple of hours. We are pushing back *hard* and having almost no success, as he is able to kill without limit.

The more silence, the more I think that the developer(s) *WANT* us to spend what is in their mind "excessive amounts of money". They are trying to set up a system, in which free, or somewhat free players can work their buts off building for 24 hours, and have it be destroyed in 2 hours by one guy (maybe plus a couple of fairly meaningless lackeys) with $100.

PLEASE give us the option of all 20 of us spending $5 rather than just giving the one guy with $100 an OP and never-ending weapon.

wow. who would have thought? :P

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While it is fun to watch cubers in action...there should be something done to balance it or it will run off new ppl too.

What I really don't get is the "I cube the correct amount, you cube too much" mindset.

Sounds like something my ex-wife used to say. "Ok if I want to...not ok for you to, if I don't"

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You don't really need to cube against a new player, they are extremely limited. Any player with an upgraded scope has the capability to "bully" a new player. It's up to us players to give a little ground and a certain amount of leeway to new players so they stick around.

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You don't really need to cube against a new player, they are extremely limited. Any player with an upgraded scope has the capability to "bully" a new player. It's up to us players to give a little ground and a certain amount of leeway to new players so they stick around.

That's true... doesn't happen in Chicago tho'. New players are given the option to switch to Faceless or have been blasted out of existence. I'd be curious to see the retention rates - by area, by faction, by level, by spend... it should be kept entirely anonymous but the analytic side of me would love to crunch the numbers to see if there's any correlations between the metrics, particular as it relates to rate of growth in # of players. I would have hoped this game would have attracted a least 100 players in Chicago by now... yet I'm guessing the number of actual players (not multiscopes) is exactly the same now as it was a year ago. It really diminishes the potential of this game if they can't find a way to attract more players, as well as retain the ones they have.

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1. Awesome that you are showing engagement on this issue gadge, it's quite encouraging :)

2. I don't think that any f2p game should be seeking to pull all their money from a few cash cows, both for ethical and sustainability reasons. That is why the vast majority of games is something you do right.

3. To Arab and lluf, I really think you forgot the first sentence of the thread when you put arced up about the most recent example of excessive qubing I saw.

4. No, it most certainly was not increasing the fun I get out of qonqr. This game is a strategy game. It is a efficiency game. Trying to work with other people to fire the best thing for the situation as many times as you can to have the best possible effect. That fight was nothing more than everybody opening their wallets, knowing they could pay more and win, and figuring out who would stop first. It's not fun, just a fact of life at the moment. Cubing does not enhance any of the enjoyment an f2p can find in qonqr. It turns qonqr into a brutal, show-offey game, in which whoever has the tightest wallet (either they have less money or more sense) will lose, hands down.

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Holy ****!!!

Look at the mad stats for the past day's events! Most launches in a day??

Great collaboration with legion and faceless to mess up the Atlantis inbalance. I have never cubed this heavily before but it was quite a thrill alongside and against others just as passionate about this game.

Please get names correct when you address people

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Lluuf, please cease your effort to derail the topic. If you have any input regarding the pros and cons of cubes as they stand, and changes that could be made to improve the overall health of the game, I would love to hear them

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You don't really need to cube against a new player, they are extremely limited. Any player with an upgraded scope has the capability to "bully" a new player. It's up to us players to give a little ground and a certain amount of leeway to new players so they stick around.

in theory this is true, but it practise...

let me give you an example, there is a relatively new faceless player in one part of the country, they are getting contuinily wiped out by one player despite now being level 100 and having 2 fully upgraded players nearby and alot of missile support from others around the country. we're talking about hundreds of thosands of bots being wiped out in minutes, it is a total joke.

im kind of surprised anyone keeps playing under these circumstances and i've recruited at least 5 people in the same area who have jacked it in around level 20-50 because they have just found it utterly pointless to even try.

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K I can stay on topic and give my two cents.

I think there's nothing wrong with the balance of cubing in this game. In normal play, cubing will be a lot less sustained and a lot less excessive due to the regional restrictions of our scopes. Sure there will be one or two players that will go cube raging or frequently cube heavily, but one guy can be contained.

But when we're in a competition against the entire worlds' teams, that's when cubing gets excessive and concludes with neither team gaining anything.

So yes, it would be nice if Atlantis were a non-cubing area, or a limited cubing area. Right now, there is nearly limitless cubing potential with it being accessible to all the worlds' top players.

I'm glad Willie and ItzCathan aren't normally regional in my area, and I'm sure you're all glad Dodgy and redeye aren't.

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Lluff - I dont agree that we have the balance correct - at the moment you can cube with any diminishing returns - this does not stack up to normal battle practice - the longer you go harder you should start to see a reduction in performance - you cannot sprint a marathon. At the moment you have some free to play players who will slowly stack 500k bots over 2 days - then someone can cube for 1 hour and easily destroy. When someone can deploy in 2 hours what a free player can do in a week - balance is not right. Cubing has its place - just needs to become less effective the longer you do it - you can keep going if you want but it gets more "expensive" to "maintain the rage"

Based on average hour deploys of 14 per hour - a cuber can do many multiplies of this (depending on what you are using and how quick your finger are) - that is a lot of free players you can overwhelm and a lot more than the 3-10 quoted by silver at the start of this thread.

The battle for the Roosterman zone has got a lot more interesting since it was initially cubed away - both factions dumping against each other - strategy on what type and when - who can deploy the most, with limited cubing to get a small foothold. The key it really what we consider "reasonable" cubing - and that is a different level for individuals.

Its getting the balance right - why bother stacking for 2-3 days when you know 1 player can cube it away very short period of time. You hope the cuber eventual decides to move on and stop spending $$s - but you lose a lot of players who can't be bothered as they feel they are not making any progress in the game.

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a cuber can do many multiplies of this (depending on what you are using and how quick your finger are) - that is a lot of free players you can overwhelm and a lot more than the 3-10 quoted by silver at the start of this thread.

even if it is just 10 that is way too high IMO. not sure how dense the players' spread is where you are but 10 players here would be most of the UK faceless playing simultaenously and still getting beaten by one player.

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3. To Arab and lluf, I really think you forgot the first sentence of the thread when you put arced up about the most recent example of excessive qubing I saw.

Im not sure what you mean.

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