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Can Atlantis go on forever??

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Oh my..... now the so called atlantis legends swarms are starting to boycott atlantis. Oh my... Oh my goodness. I knew it was coming after all it had to happen sometime sooner or later.

Eventually they are getting why faceless boycott some time ago.

It is really the case to look through. I mean just tell me how one can stick with the same old boring atlantis for such a long time huh?

I know devs aren't working on cool atlantis updates are they? And With some LIMITED medals only, people are getting more and more reluctant with the time.

No improvements, Nothing fancy about atlantis...

I believe The Law of equi-marginal utility applies here. Every time I see is that the satisfaction of people are diminishing with the additional boring Atlantises.

I ain't smoking stuff a lot with my small mouth but begging for further improvements and addition of various medals and awards as well as rank titles.

Thank you in advance :)

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I think the Legion are becoming increasingly satisfied with Atlantis :P.

I think it's fun. It's a good break from the normal routine of Qonqr and it's nice getting together with the community (qommunity?) and working together. I think it could be spaced out a bit more - maybe quarterly - so that it becomes a bigger deal. But then I'm pretty new so I don't have a good long view on it yet. I like it!

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I think it's fun the way the Legion are evolving. Before, they were a band of soldiers with no leadership and thus posed no real threat. This is why they always got 2nd; not a threat, not a target.

Now most of the veteran Legionnaires are commanding a small army of scopes of their own. Most of them don't even hide the fact. I guess I'll be buying some cheap iPhones. If you can't beat the multiscoping game, join the multiscoping game.

I predict Atlantis will become a competition between a few dozen players and a few hundred accounts... and then fizzle out altogether.

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I think it's fun the way the Legion are evolving. Before, they were a band of soldiers with no leadership and thus posed no real threat. This is why they always got 2nd; not a threat, not a target.

Now most of the veteran Legionnaires are commanding a small army of scopes of their own. Most of them don't even hide the fact. I guess I'll be buying some cheap iPhones. If you can't beat the multiscoping game, join the multiscoping game.

I predict Atlantis will become a competition between a few dozen players and a few hundred accounts... and then fizzle out altogether.

See you in atlantis my love.

Edit: don't forget, you can buy as many phones as you want, but a major factor is how active you are. And you won't be as active as we are.

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Qonqr isn't being set up as a sustainable game. I don't see how this game can continue to grow when some areas have all zones stacked well into the millions, and strong players have essentially no cap to how much firepower they can bring to the table (in the form of multiple scopes and/or money). Basically the barrier to entry is getting way too high. Perhaps the developers are well aware of this and are simply trying to get the most out of it. I feel bad even saying that but that is how it feels for many of us. Throw a bone to the lesser players and new players, I think that will go a long way in terms of revitalizing this game.

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I'm Swarm now, but I played in the last 2 Atlantis battles as Legion (I originally joined as Legion), and I don't multiscope. In this last Atlantis, it seemed like faceless never showed up (I think most zones were only stacked to 2M or so) & Swarm seemed to all but give up a few days into it. I know it was bc Legion had it won very early on, but don't give multis all the credit. I'm pretty new & put a lot of time & launches into Atlantis, as did many other new Legionnaires. I put in 400+ launches, which is alot considering I have to compete with Osagewarrior in my local area. Also, Earit has been a tremendous help and an awesome addition to Legion.

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The truth is, as a whole, a high majority of players in Atlantis don't multiscope, Legion's recent victories are related to strong participation among Legion players and a strong campaign in recent months to get all Legion in most of the global involved. And also stronger legion leadership and more coordinated attacks. Yes, there are and always have been multiscopers in Atlantis, even amongst Legion, but I don't think there has been a recent upsurge in multiscoping. If you think there has been, then Sync Lock works in Atlantis too, I know because I've Sync Locked 2 faceless players in atlantis before. To attribute our recent wins in Atlantis to multiscoping undercuts the strong efforts and dedication we've put into these last few months of Atlantis. Almost half of the players in our Atlantis Group Me chats are new, which to me shows that our participating levels have increased significantly. What are you going to argue next? That people are multiscoping groupme?

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The truth is, as a whole, a high majority of players in Atlantis don't multiscope, Legion's recent victories are related to strong participation among Legion players and a strong campaign in recent months to get all Legion in most of the global involved. And also stronger legion leadership and more coordinated attacks. Yes, there are and always have been multiscopers in Atlantis, even amongst Legion, but I don't think there has been a recent upsurge in multiscoping. If you think there has been, then Sync Lock works in Atlantis too, I know because I've Sync Locked 2 faceless players in atlantis before. To attribute our recent wins in Atlantis to multiscoping undercuts the strong efforts and dedication we've put into these last few months of Atlantis. Almost half of the players in our Atlantis Group Me chats are new, which to me shows that our participating levels have increased significantly. What are you going to argue next? That people are multiscoping groupme?

I want to start by saying that Legion has come a long way in the last two rounds of Atlantis in terms of organization and teamwork. I don't want to undermine that progress; great work! But, please don't fool yourself that easily.

I just summed up the top 100 deploy counts from the last Atlantis run for Legion: 122568 (It is 3am I might be off by a bit)

Deploys from Thai Legion accounts (just the 15 that I know of, might be more) sum up to: 22977

That is just shy of 19% of the ENTIRE Legion top 100. This isn't counting the 'Cat Army' or whatever you want to call it. That is not insignificant. Did that affect the outcome of the last Atlantis? maybe, maybe not... I have nothing to say about that. But please, don't dismiss the multiscope factor that easily.

Edit: Also might I add that sync locking doesn't work as a solution when you all of a sudden have four identical innoculated grunt accounts, blindly stacking Absorbers into what was an evenly matched fight. This happened in both January and February.

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I said that there was always multiscoping on all sides including Legion. I'm not confirming or denying that Thai army and/or Cat Army as you put it are or aren't multiscopers, but my point is that those accounts have been playing almost every Atlantis, so you can't really attribute an increase that to our recent wins even if those are multiscoped accounts. The main factor causing our wins was greater participation of Legion in Atlantis and strong leadership that arisen amounst legion in Atlantis and some killer strategies we've come up with that really only apply to Atlantis style fighting.

To answer the original question of this thread. Yes, Atlantis can and probably will go on forever. I have a feeling the developers will continue to make small tweaks to Atlantis to keep in intesting as they have already done such as the T-Shirt Incentive, shortened stacking period, etc. Either sometime soon or around the launch of QONQR Blue.

A few of my suggestions would be to remove Grunt zones and simply make it a no refresh pack zone. I think it encourages multiscoping and in reality players less than 100 Level shouldn't be playing in Atlantis, they should be gaining experience locally before taking part in such a large operation. Not that grunt players should be banned, let them play if they want but I don't think we need to dedicate a zone to them, and again, it encourages multiscoping, it does more harm than good.

Another suggestion would be to increase the winnings at the end, maybe something like 20 Million for the winners, 10 Million for second, 2 - 5 million for third. That way trying for second is still a worthly cause even if you feel you have no chance at getting first.

Hitting first would still be the goal obviously, the 20 million, plus the extra harvest bonuses makes it an attractive goal. Plus of course, bragging rights...

Atlantis was one of the things that kept me playing early on. I almost quite after QONQRing my local radius with no new players to challenge. Atlantis kept me in the game by giving me another objective, later on more local players arose to help keep it interesting. I think if Atlantis would have been introduced sooner more players would have kept playing QONQR. It definately needs to continue.

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I charted out the top 100 deployers for each faction a couple months ago, you'll notice relatively smooth exponential decay for both swarm and faceless. Legion on the other hand has an almost comical plateau in the high ranking deployers that lines up perfectly with the Thai list. I haven't saved such a chart for all Atlantis runs, but generally they have been the same. Yes all factions have multiscopers, but none quite as prolifiv as what we have seen from Legion. I am not blaming Legion or any faction for this behavior, but the qonqr community as a whole needs to get behind controlling this nonsense, Legion included. Which is why I ask you not to dismiss the elephant in the room when it comes to multis in Atlantis.

Links to charts:

http://i.imgur.com/4dqjrac.png

http://i.imgur.com/gsL3Pqh.png

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So roughly what everyone is getting down to is a general air of being PO'ed that yet again, those jerks from Legion are taking an interest in something and having done so, are bringing their undenied but often decried coordination and massing capabilities to the table to dominate? They should be ashamed of themselves for even daring to do so. And the multiscoping. How dare they!!! Silver should burn all their accounts for daring to do such. No one else does and it is grossly unfair for them to do so.

Funny, I don't remember anyone crying when Legion was losing.

Perhaps, some perspective - Suck it up buttercups, there's no crying in QONQR!

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So roughly what everyone is getting down to is a general air of being PO'ed that yet again, those jerks from Legion are taking an interest in something and having done so, are bringing their undenied but often decried coordination and massing capabilities to the table to dominate? They should be ashamed of themselves for even daring to do so. And the multiscoping. How dare they!!! Silver should burn all their accounts for daring to do such. No one else does and it is grossly unfair for them to do so.

Funny, I don't remember anyone crying when Legion was losing.

Perhaps, some perspective - Suck it up buttercups, there's no crying in QONQR!

I don't know about anyone else, but I made those charts in September 2014 and had been complaining about multis in Atlantis (specifically the Thai accounts) long before that and certainly before Legion starting winning. But that was all internally discussed with just Swarm. I only chose to speak up and get involved now because of the Cathan issue. I figured if there was a time to push for change this would be it. Looks like we got something in the form of new inoculation rules for Atlantis. Not a perfect solution for multiscoping, but at least it does help the situation in Atlantis. Thank you Qonqr guys for taking steps towards fixing it. Much appreciated!

Edit: Mar 2015 - http://i.imgur.com/QGBipLp.png

The orange line represents Legion with all but the highest deploying Thai player removed. Its a much more natural curve isn't it?

And from Day 1 Melee:

http://i.imgur.com/NSh7AhL.png

There you see over 4.5 million additional bots that shouldn't have been there at all.

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Oh yes. This is especially useful when one focuses only on the single anomaly, ignoring any others. The great thing about statistical analysis, the one thing it can be counted on for, is to provide the support necessary for a claim that is being made. Humans have been using them to prove their point for as long as they have walked this earth. Nevermind completion or validity, as long as its factual.

See, here's the issue that I have with your analysis. You're argument rests on two legs (bipedal conveyence - requiring continual adjustment to remain upright but never able to become stable of itself, only present the facade of stability, second only to unipedal conveyence which is so easily identified by its obvious instability and need to jump about to remain upright). Nonetheless, your analysis rests on the two counter claims that Thai Legion multiscopes which is cheating and that Swarm and Faceless do not. Therefore, all multiscoping should be punished.

Lets examine this a bit. Your first point - that Thai Legion multiscopes. Based on your data, the best you can claim is that they potentially multiscope. Even for all your efforts at collecting and organizing the statistics so nice and neately, you still can't get to the point of "it is proven thus". The entirety of this argument rests on the assertion "there is a pronounced increase to deployment along the line of analysis for Legion. The only way this is possible is through multiscoping". Just looking at the statement reveals how riduculous, ignorant and biased it is.

Your second point is truly enjoyable. It goes something like this; because Thai Legion multiscopes, then all Legion multiscopes. Because multiscoping is cheating and all cheating should be punished, all multiscoping should be punished. Lets think about this for a moment. Multiscoping (to the latest definition that I am aware of, is the deployment of =/>50% of deployments by two players occuring within 1 km of each other within a 60 minute window) is cheating. Riddle me this - do you really think that you could throw this into a Venn diagram and make it work? I can think of at least four scenarios where this assertion would most likely place the presenter at mortal risk of removal from the gene pool before they had the opportunity to infect it with their stupidity.

All the way through this little diatribe above you, and our obtuse friends from Faceless have maintained the argument against Legion, which I think does much more to reveal your antagonistic attitudes than it does to prove or disprove anything regarding multiscoping or Legion cheating.

In either case, you've all gotten what you wanted. If my family, friends and I are hobbled because of the snivelling of others within Atlantis we will have to be content with the knowledge that Atlantis is only temporary and is just as easily won by convincing others to either rage quit or convert and the recruitment of new players. It is, in the end, all about the volume isn't it? Whats more, it is extremely satisfying to watch as Faceless and Swarm use all them qubes only to see them miss the qredit return.

:huh: Hmmmmm. I wonder if that isn't what is really the source of all this angst? :blink:

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I did genuinely try to avoid placing blame on any faction, but I can see where I might have failed. I'm sorry anyone in Legion felt that way... I mainly just focused on the one anomaly (Thai Legion) for which I have easily accessible data given Atlantis takes place in a very small number of zones and the impact of a single player can be easily measured (I briefly mentioned multis in Grunt zones). And I did this not to blame Legion, but simply to encourage ALL qonqr players to realize that this game can be exploited at this scale, and to encourage ALL qonqr players to take some action against this.

Of course no one has definitive proof that Thai Legion is a single player. And unfortunately there isn't an easy way to determine this as a player. What I presented is not a sophisticated statistical analysis, it is just some strategically selected raw data that paints a picture. You can interpret it as you wish. My interpretation is that it is hardly likely that more than a dozne people would both top the deployment count rankings and also all have approx the same deployment count - all of which have been successfully sync locked with each other.

Not to mention I'm pretty sure I managed to say everything I wanted without a snarky or sadistic tongue. But, I still apologize for somehow offending you, t0xn. (Yeah that last bit broke my streak of minimal snarky-ness haha) I don't see what logic brought you to your interpretation that we claim ALL Legion cheats/multiscopes or that Swarm or Faceless don't. I even explicitly stated otherwise more than once. I don't however retract anything I may have said that explicitly accuses the Thai accounts to be multis. I have no proof, but what can I say, the data is hard for me to argue against even if it is just a statistic.

But anyways... I do spend a lot of time on qonqr and Atlantis so this topic is important to me.

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And it is easy for me to argue otherwise. Again, that's one of the great things about statistics. They (as a general rule) can be manipulated to support the point that one is attempting to make. The data is the data. How you choose to interpret it, well, that's another thing entirely. You say it makes it hard for you to consider other possibilities other than A. I say that I can see your interpretation A but I also can see other potential, just as possible interpretations B, C, D, etc. Which one of those two positions is more likely to be biased.

Not to mention I'm pretty sure I managed to say everything I wanted without a snarky or sadistic tongue. But, I still apologize for somehow offending you, t0xn. (Yeah that last bit broke my streak of minimal snarky-ness haha) I don't see what logic brought you to your interpretation that we claim ALL Legion cheats/multiscopes or that Swarm or Faceless don't. I even explicitly stated otherwise more than once.

Now most of the veteran Legionnaires are commanding a small army of scopes of their own. Most of them don't even hide the fact. I guess I'll be buying some cheap iPhones. If you can't beat the multiscoping game, join the multiscoping game.

Nope, I don't know where that silly little thought would have popped into my head from either. That, and I'm pretty sure I haven't been sadistic in any of my language either.

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Nope, I don't know where that silly little thought would have popped into my head from either. That, and I'm pretty sure I haven't been sadistic in any of my language either.

Whoops meant to say sarcastic. And I guess I wasn't considering what others said in addition to what I have posted. I agree t0xn, those blanket statements are very much unfair to Legion. Regarding the data, what I presented is a little manipulative, but I really don't think I was too bad about it. Yes, it doesn't prove anything, but isn't that at least decent grounds for deeper investigation into that and other similar cases?

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