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DanielMercury

QONQR, here to...arm us?

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So, let's touch the taboo subject, the very reason we are all here. Why QONQR exist?

I'm not gonna make a bit recapt of the faction motives, but let's reason on something SuperTrampoline pointed out: for being a super AI, we have seen so far only normal people controlling his machines.

So, fact: QONQR advanced our warfare technology of years, giving us Scopes and Nanobots.

What if this was not accidentally?

A rogue AI is still an AI. It has an original program he decided to not respect usually going for paradigms ( example: you create an AI to defend humanity, and the AI breaks the rule by defending humanity from themselves. ). So far we DON'T know two things: QONQR's original progamming, which means define it Rogue could be wrong...and the future.

What happened in the era QONQR comes from? Nobody knows. So...what if there is another menace beside QONQR, and maybe QONQR has been programmed to counter this menace, but it reached a point were counter-measures were too late, so jumped to the past to give us those counter-measures.

Who knows then, QONQR could even act evil to train us. Even when he will wake up it will be impossible to define it, not knowing it's true propose in the very beginning...his original progammation.

It's an interesting topic to discuss, as this is literaly not thr fight of QONQR, is in any way you want to see it a fight...to write our future.

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If I was qonqr, i'd set it up so that all the peoples would fight each other rather than me. Divide them up with some carefully selected puppet leaders and make sure the humans cant join together to make any resistance. I'd especially make atleast one faction who's alleged objective is to hate and destroy me so naturally I can keep an eye on those who join that faction more easily while they still work for me just like every faction does.

While they fight each other what would I be doing? Since the concept of factions (according to my previous words here) is simply a scam... a decoy.. then what is it distracting us from?

I tend to agree that an AI with logic (setting aside the possibility of it ACTUALLY being controled by a person while pretending it is an AI) would ultimately realize humans need to be destroyed since they are a horrifying virus which feeds off of any environment and even each other. So perhaps QONQR just wants to get rid of all humans so the universe can be a lovelier place? who know.. just contemplating out loud :)

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This would make sense if we take the Legion and thr Swarm...but we have the Faceless.

Faceless are the only ones actively studying and dissecting QONQR, actively trying to control and use his data and technology. Why letting this third faction, clearly only a problem, live? QONQR does not need more than those ready to serve it and those he will have to destroy, and yet he's letting alive a faction who can be only a problem to him.

If QONQR was awake enough to proceed with your plan, he would not let the human have a chance to retro-engineering him. I'm sure wiki articles about X-COM will be still active in the future and so you know you don't want to give humanity a way to use your toys against you, it doesn't end well for the invader.

And again, why giving them a way to fight so...indirectly? If there were no nanobots, Swarm and Legion would come to straight open war, massacring each other for good. And no, I do not believe QONQR needs us to deploy his nanobots, he would probably be able to woke up armies even alone.

But' modt important point, travelling to the past. WHY?

Let's suppose QONQR won in the future: then this travel will be pointless, you rule earth, it would be illogical for an AI risking this point to just rule it some years before.

Now, let's suppose QONQR lost: superior tech? Humanity went X-COM on his ****? Who cares, it will be still an illogical move: somewhere, in this world, people who will create him or their grandparents lives, the risk of harming them by causing a world conflict is illogical, and also it would not give us weapons to fight back at this point.

It's logical to assume we miss importants pieces of the puzzle that looks more and more essential to solve the mystery.

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Meow..

And also ok So i understand what you are saying and here is how it would fit in my mind.

Naturally you give the people 2 teams to choose from but of course youd need a third (or more) options for those who later start to see the 2 opposing groups. The nature of faceless is to take the extra greedy, arrogant, selfish AND smart operatives. The nature of legion is to take the barbarians and destroyers and Swarm, in the end, is for those who wish to save things and help them.

Each is going to naturally create its own groups so if I was qonqr Id make sure to provide them a faction i can still control without them lending the self fullfillment nature which can make destroyers or preservation types get their agendas complete more efficiently.

The one thing they are all doing is spreading nanos. Using technology i (qonqr) gave them, but of course if I am to give them tools they will be but tinker toys compared to my full potential tools. On top of this perhaps it requires a certain task to be cleared before it can exert its full power. Perhaps a certain number of nanos in all the zones. Once I (qonqr) had all MY bots distributed by all the fools then I will be in a position that provides no hope for any resistance.

It'd be like if I installed mind control devices in tv's. I'd still need to get the tv's in every zone.

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Again, however, I don't see the Faceless presumption. Prometheus is also working to methods to control it, not only to exploit it. It's like the Legion and the Swarm are the far wings and the Faceless are the center, and thus the most dangerous if I want to conquer earth: they are studying ways to use my technology against me and for their own ends, it doesn't bode well for me.

Legion too are dangerous, but they adopted nanobots only on the idea that they need to step up their game to become competitive. It's pretty much a 2 vs 1. If the nanobot are just my basic toys, what are their purpose. Again, imagine this battle without the nanobots fighting for us, we would really kill each other and go ballistic, instead of using QONQR resources to do that. QONQR needs to disperse nanobots to reactivate itself? then why letting humans battle each other on it? It only makes more difficult to spread them if they clash one another.

And also again, there is the time travel...

It's strange, but the theory of QONQR here to be evil sound more filled with holes than the other possibilites...

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Hmm many interesting points, but of course I know nothing and am only theorizing. It could be as simple as the bots and giving of technology is to the end result of getting the bots at a higher level sooner in time for some nefarious end. If we knew the original source code of Qonqr it would help.

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I am very intrigued with the thought process here. Maybe Faceless is being used by qonqr, if the faceless are trying to control qonqr they would have to take everything apart and see how it works. And what if after taking it apart they see a better way to assemble it and make it stronger. Qonqr could easily use this to his advantage and become more powerful from their knowledge. Since he is a human made machine with human ideas behind his structure, he would need humans to give him certain perspectives. Including new ways to better his equipment.

I don't think an AI would try to completely wipe out the human race, humans are a valuable race. Our bodies are organic, we could be used as slaves to first better our ruined planet and then we could be killed off and used as fertilizer but in order to keep qonqr functional he would need humans. Self preservation is a big part of the human thought process, so why wouldn't it be apart of qonqr's?

Qonqr doesn't have to be evil either, maybe he comes from a future that is desolate of humans because we didn't evolve fast enough with our degrading environment.Therefore the conditions were to harsh for our organic bodies. He could have gone through many scenarios on how that end could have been prevented and come up with giving nanobots to humans sooner would create a faster world peace and a better earthly environment. With new technology advancement would take place sooner and humans could coax better with any change.

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I definitely think the Faceless are being manipulated by Qonqr... what better way to study your opponent than to experience first hand how they study you.

Swarm are deluded... kind of like the people who believe big government always looks after it's citizens... Qonqr is not Canada... I see Qonqr more like North Korea...

And Legion has the least risky approach. Eliminate the unknown, because what you don't know CAN kill you...

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lol... evil or paranoid? true, they're a little extreme in their "solution"... but only because they want to eliminate any potential threat, real or perceived.

i think Faceless have the greatest likelyhood of being "evil"... just cause they're sneaky and lacking a face. and they hack things. and they lack a face. seriously. no face. that's just creepy.

Swarm are all lovey dovey, puppy dogs and ponies. No evil there. A healthy helping of naivete... smile on your brother, man!... but not an evil bone in our little green bodies. :)

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..... So far we DON'T know two things: QONQR's original progamming, which means define it Rogue could be wrong...and the future.

....Who knows then, QONQR could even act evil to train us. Even when he will wake up it will be impossible to define it, not knowing it's true propose in the very beginning...his original progammation.....l

Very true, to understand most anything you should always start from the beginning. Kudos to you DanielMercury, truly a scientific method. This not being possible (knowing the original programming), we can only assume things and apply them so that we can see how logical it really is. Hopefully QONQR truly did come to arm us from the future, a future that would bring our destruction. Also, if QONQR did in fact come to arm us, giving us this advanced technology so early on would in fact help us to better understand how to combat any future enemy.Assuming that time is not a "strict progression of cause to effect" but rather a "nonlinear non subjective"...."big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-whimey stuff" which seems to be more and more an acceptable possibility.

Also, thinking that the third faction is a better way to keep an eye on QONQR's true enemy [those who would pose the greatest threat especially due to their ambiguity - no face (; ] would be a truly smart and tactical advantageous thing to do on its behalf- btw thanks for the compliment monk (: Having us disperse nanobots everywhere on its behalf so as to not appear like an invasion! Truly a stroke of genius......IF QONQR can reprogram them at any given moment. Then and only then would it seem like it is here to enslave us rather than to aid us.

Trinkets and toys this advanced can always lend us a helping hand into how more advanced weapons are brought about. This being said, I agree with DavidMercury, the potential of us figuring out how to convert these "tinker toys" into a source of knowledge to defend ourselves in the future is too great a risk. The thought of us improving it is a bit scary, should it ever believe it is advanced enough to take care of itself. Self preservation would probably be embedded into its make up, until improved to the point that it can create things itself? Truly remarkable, yet horrifying to imagine.

In the end, the debate of making us its puppets or hoping we can better utilize and understand its technology for a better future is still to be discovered........we can only hope it's not too late when its true purpose is revealed. O! Didn't mean to offend anyone, just putting my 2 cents out there (:

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I believe whatever the AIs intentions are, only the faceless will not be truly caught unprepared.

The faceless code can be summed up rather appropraitely and in my opinion ironically (if you get the reference) in two words: No Fate. We are the masters of our own destiny and choose not to let a group who would burn a pile of christmas present because there might be a bomb in one OR a group who licks radioactive waste becuase they expect it to give them superpowers be our masters.

The Legion and the Swarm are both zealots and zealots of any strip are dangerous eventually. You certainly dont want them running the circus. I am faceless beause I trust few other people and NO machine with my own destiny.

Whatever QONQR intentions, benevolent or destructive, it will not have the trust of the faceless unless and until it proves worthy of it. All it has proven so far is it is merely a very advanced tool. And tools are meant to be used. We are not so ignorant as to believe ourselves proof against the AIs potential manipulations as well. We simply do not view it as salvation or doom. Merely...opportunity.

When opportunity knocks, we answer.

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Rocco, you have a true heart worthy of knowing Naga, but you must wait. As you wait you must ask yourself what assumptions you are willing to discard for that which is currently unknown.

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why, thank you naga! and, heck... i'll discard just about anything! assumptions included!

so how can I join the naga movement? do I have to be faceless? cause i'm kind of fond of my face and the color purple puts me in a dour mood... I blame it on the oprah winfrey movie... and an unsettling experience meeting Grimace when I was 3... not to mention Barney... and the Great Grape Ape... and that one-eyed, one-horned, flying people eater...

*waits patiently to be accepted into naganess*

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